Rugby – British Lions/Dream Teams?

1) What would be your British and Irish starting 15??
2) What would be your european starting 15??
3) What would be your world starting 15??
Please include stuff like captains and a few subs aswell, thanks!!!

Lions

1 Murray (Scotland)
2 Flannery (Ireland)
3 Hayes (Ireland)
4 Borthwick (England)
5 O'Connell (Ireland)
6 Williams (Wales)
7 Wallace (Ireland)
8 Heaslip (Ireland)
9 Phillips (Wales)
10 Ronan O'Gara/Stephen Jones (Ireland/Wales)
11 Shane Williams (Wales)
12 Rikki Flutey (England)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland) Captain
14 Delon Armitage (England)
15 Lee Byrne (Wales)

European

1 Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy)
2 Dimitri Szarzewski (France)
3 John Hayes (Ireland)
4 Paul O'Connell (Ireland)
5 Steve Borthwick (England)
6 Joe Worsley (England)
7 Imanol Hardinoquay (France)
8 Sergio Parisse (Italy) Captain
9 Morgan Parra (France)
10 Stephen Jones/Ronan O'Gara (Wales/Ireland)
11 Shane Williams (Wales)
12 Rikki Flutey (England)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland)
14 Delon Armitage (England)
15 Lee Byrne (Wales)

World

1 Tony Woodcock (NZAB)
2 Keven Mealamu (NZAB)
3 Roncero (Argentina)
4 Victor Matfield (SA)
5 Bakkies Botha (SA)
6 Juan Smit (SA)
7 Richie McCaw (NZAB)
8 Rodney So'oila (NZAB)
9 Morgan Parra (France)
10 Jonny Wilkinson (If fit) but otherwise…Dan Carter (NZAB)
11 Bryan Habana (SA)
12 Matt Giteau (Australia)
13 Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland) Captain
14 JP Peterson (SA)
15 Mils Muliaina (NZAB)

Why aren't Argentina touring NZ and Aus?

Obviously with the Lions tour there's no pre-tri-nations warm-ups against the home nations teams. So we'll have to suffice with out of form France and Italy.
Why not Argentina? they toured in 1997. I honestly feel they'd be as competitive as France and more competitive than Italy. And as a spectator I prefer their brand of Rugby. They don't get many cracks at the All Blacks and they just might beat us. Is it to do with TV revenues?
I know this is all decided in advance but surely a tour from the Pumas made sense even before the WRC07.

Very good question. I think you have a major clue wrt TV revenues. Although rugby is played with great passion and skill in Argentina, it is within a very small fraction of the overall population. Argentina's revenues for televised sport are heavily committed to football and, lagging that by a fair bit, basketball. The base needed to generate large TV revenues in Argentina is simply not there. In addition, there is not a significant ARG ex-pat community in NZ and AUS, and because SANZAR have resisted ARG, there is no traditional rivalry, so the TV argument is not strong enough there either.

UAR does not have the resources (neither of experienced organizers nor of money) to organize effectively. Hence, the overwhelming majority of the their elite players play overseas (FRA and ENG), and they have made no progress really at penetrating the SANZAR monopoly on big-time professional rugby in the SH. This is a great shame, imo, as I find their rugby to be entertaining and skillful (not least in the forwards).

Finally, I reckon all those Argentinian professionals who have been toiling through the whole NH season will be looking forward to a chance to return home for a bit of a break. They can watch the B&I Lions, maybe the NZ Maori games if they come off, and then relax with some Tri Nations. Maybe they actually have it right: perhaps the human body is not meant to play rugby union at a professional level absolutely all year long.

Mark L.

Difference between NRL is way better AFL ?

NRL: National Rugby League

Its actually a game and not like the AFL Where you see Skinny men running around in gym shorts for 20 minutes a quarter. In The NRL Its a game of Strengh, Agression and Speed. IN AFL Its just kick to kick its so boring the ball goes back and fourth.

In The NRL There are better team names like Broncos, Titans , Storm and Roosters ect. In the AFL Theres shit names like Blues and Bombers and wtf There is Magpies crise ho ever invented GAYFL

In the NRL Fullbacks are Speed Running type players in AFL There 100kg men who just chip the ball in the defensive 50. There are better mascots in the NRL Plus cheerleaders In the AFL The only cool mascot is the Brisbane Lions one. In The AFL The Free Kicks you get a free kcik for just pushing theme in the back thats aload of bull crap in the NRL There are Big shoulder charges and Ankle taps you cant even do ankle taps in GAYFL It will be tripping. And The Gurnsys
For any one who plays Aussie Rules your gonna kick the bll and you see theguy in front on the mark and you see his armpit hair disguting.

Nrl is the best game that the AFL Fags could see so Look at it for once and see the Difference NRL ROX

Go Brisbane Broncos !!!!!!!!!!
Plus NRL Have the best stadiums
Suncorp Stadium betta than The Gabba
ANZ Stadium betta than Telstra Dome
Its more Electrifying to Watch if it = is a tight game like the Broncos and Titans game on Friday Night that was a Classic
GIVE ME AN ANSWER SUM 1!!!

As an AFL fan i do have preference over AFL rather than NRL. But after reading many responses from both sides i have to say that the argument put forward by the AFL fans is much better and more logical than the NRL supporters. NRL supporter only bag what the AFL supporters say rather than put forward an argument which compares the two sports

I will try to impartially compare the two

Footy Shows- AFL footy show is an actual FOOTY show thats talks about the latest and relevant issues happening in the game. It also has some comedy in the form of Trev’s jokes and Sam Newman just being himself.

The NRL footy show is far from that, it is more like a hour of 4 amateurish hosts trying to conduct a professional television show but who screw up so many times its not funny. The good parts of the show are Reg reagan and the daredevil dudes which are very entertaining, but the old gags are getting very thin. there is only so many times that you can listen to a drongo sniffing peoples hair and acting like a dumbf#ck.

Secondly, Attendances- overwhelmingly this factor is in favor of the AFL. The stats prove that more AFL fans go to the footy to watch their team play than NRL supporters do. You may comeback and say that AFL are rich b@st@rds but if NRL fans really loved the game they would fork out their pay to watch their team play.

Thirdly, TV- this factor is in favour of the NRL, they do get more people watching it on TV, but this comes back to the last point, cant they be bothered to support their team at the ground, where it really counts.

Next, toughness and physicality- Nrl fans would be licking their lips with this key area but in fact i believe the two games are similar in this area. To run full pelt at a forward like Sonny-bill and get smashed is in fact very physical, but what if you have to back into a pack to take an overhead mark in AFL. You dont know whats coming from behind, you could get cleaned up and taken to hospital (recenlty with Tom Lonergan). Overall with toughness i dont think anyone would want to face either Barry Hall or Carl Webb in the ring.

Lastly, fitness and skill- This category clearly is in favour of the AFL. I could safely say that 95% of AFL players are aerobically fitter that the most fit NRL player. The only part that NRl has over AFL is body strength. And there is no question that AFL players are more skillful thatn NRL players. Each and every Afl player must be able to hit a target from a range of distances, in order to help their teammates out. And also afl players must handball the ball to dispose of it by hand.
All nrl players have to do is throw the ball. 12/13 players on an NRL field, the only ball skill they have is throwing the football. 1/13 players on the field actually kick the ball and they only have to do that 20 times a game MAX.
Tackling is the only skill that NRL players have over AFL players.

Overall i think the most important category in determining which sport is better is where the sport originated.
AFL is a home grown, Australian sport, NRL was produced overseas.

I am a lover of all sports and all codes. to like one sport over another is normal but to say that a sport itself is no good… That’s just un-Australian!!!

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1.On December 29th Tom Brady beat Dan Marino’s touchdown record how many did Marino have?
2.What Vince McMahon owned organization failed after 1 season in 2001?
3.In the 1997 NBA finals which player led the bulls beating the jazz with the stomach flu?
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Without resorting to internet research, I'll try my best:
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25. Cleveland (22nd pick)

So now the Crusaders lost in Bloemfontein are they stuffed for the season?

After impressively knocking over the Sharks a couple of weeks back the Cheetahs showed some of their potential again last night shutting out the Crusaders for a comprehensive 20-10 win. Next week the Crusaders have to bring it out in Johannesburg. Despite the results I'm favouring the Lions. They have lots of potential with players like Rose and Fourie and will be keen to bounce back at home after being thumped by the Force.
I think Canterbury are gone for this season. And as a Hurricanes supporter I'm not sad hahaha.

Can the Hurricanes stay on top? can the Bulls, Chiefs and the Sharks stay on course for the play-offs? can the Waratahs or the Force squeek in?

How can people say Super rugby's not interesting? could it be because their team sux this season? or because the AB's got knocked out early in WRC07?
Brownhot you're a dingus. As always half of what you've written doesn't make grammatical sense. I wonder if more than 5 of your neurons are working at once.

And yes I've touched a rugby ball. This is the first season since 1985 I haven't signed up to play Rugby.

I'd say so. I still have faith in the Blues but… I hope the Chiefs do well. The 'Canes? Well, if history repeats itself, no lol.

R.e. Brian O'Driscoll Question?

Hone your answer empitomises the whole point of the other BOD question that some, some Souther Hemisphere rugby fans are arrogant.
Straight away from your answer i and most other people who watch BOD play frequently know your talking about that from a perspective that you havent seen BOD play, and that your just relying on a few clips or games and word of mouth.

If you had seen a whole season of BOD, or in fact this years Six Nations you would know this guy is the Best Centre in at least the last 30 years.

Nearly every paragraph you said about BOD is the complete opposite of what he is. You said you dont think hes a great leader, fair enough thats your opinion which your entitled too but he Captained a broken Ireland team to Six Nations Grand Slam and only just missed out on being picked for the Lions tour, and he would of taken the captaincy had it not been for McGeechans Captain style, looking for a big forward.

You said the real measure of a great centre is the success of the team around him. BOD pulls the team together, sets up attacks, acts as a forward, fly half, winger, try scorer, great tackler and even a flanker. He fills in for people who are having an off day, like when O'gara was having an off day against England this six nations and BOD, out of his position was able to score a winning drop-goal to raise the team up.

Horgan did work well with BOD, Horgan scored many tries when playing with BOD in the Ireland team so i dont know where you got that from. Wingers dont go in partnership with Centres, they recieve passes from them occasionally but they dont form an established partnership role.

Too much applause? The applause he gets is because he has Captained a side to a champion ship or being brought up again in little niggly debates like these.

He is a team player, if anything he is one of the most team influencial players your can get. "Too much applause for BOD simply based on twinkle toes and tries he has scored not tries his teams have scored" – Are you serious, he scored a team try, which ended up winning IRB Team Try of the year 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSn2hwC7Mg

Record breaking wings dont rely on centres, Shane Williams takes most of his breaks from high balls and scrum half balls, and he is one of the best wingers in the world.

When his fans applaude him for doing nothing its annoying? How, first of all he would of done something to get applauded, and nearly every game he has done something worthy of an applause.

"The brilliance of rugby is that it is a team game of 15 players not a team of one." – Yes true but thats the same in most team games. But you still get great players who duely deserve there credit. You big up quite a few SH players, and i bet you dont to call it a team game SH stars are bigged up.

"Defensively BOD is wanting and SH midfields run through him very easily." – I seriously doubt youve watched a whole game with BOD in it.
BOD is the complete opposite, he is probably the most defensive player in the world of rugby backs. He is the most effective tackler for his size anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnx6ZnMd…

Finally, your last paragraph is one of the most contrary things ive seen on this wesbite

"Sad thing is there are plenty of NH centres playing better rugby than BOD – but never recognized. As for Smith and Kahui – Yeah, cause you are watching the S14, aren't you? Get a sky package and watch Kahui and Smith before you run your mouth off."

BOD is an all round player, there are other great centres in the NH, but BOD does the things you wont expect.

I think out of the people youve shunted in your arguement, your the one who should get a sky package, if you have seen BOD lately you would not have said half the things you brought up there.

Yeah ok bro, you win, BOD is god.

Please forgive me for thinking this was an open forum for expressing views that may differ from individual to individual.

I will never speak my mind again, thanks for the telling off, and putting me on the right track.

I will be sure to cheer for BOD with newly informed passion from this day on.

So now Munster's gone down 6-25…?

…and that's a pretty comprehensive thumping, especially considering it's within the lower-scoring heavier defended NH environment…

Will all of the Munster fans (and as much as I want to I won't name names) stop coming on here (acting as though they've already won the HC) and saying that more Munster players should be in the Lions, that they're a better representation of Irish Rugby than the national team. And will they stop crowing about beating… sorry… ALMOST beating the AB's midweek team on some tour game?
Will this shut them up?

Or will they instead just come here and say how as a matter of fact (not thier opinion) O'Driscoll is the best there's ever been?
Oh yeah Murphy I was waiting for one of them to blame Tipoki, Mafi or Howlett. How after bleating on about Munster's supposedly world-best forward pack they'll soon blame the imported backline.
"complacency killed munster
we had one eye on the HC final and one eye on the lions tour and didn't see leinster coming

we beat leinster twice this year and didnt think much of them either time we had just won the magners league title on thursday and got ahead of ourselves"

I'm curious, did you laugh when AB's fans said something similar to that in 1999, 2003 or 2007?
Richie: [laughs] Oh yeah I've got a real chip on my shoulder, yeah ood one.

You get defensive like this because you know I'm right…
To Ritchie (yet again):
[interrupting] NO RITCHIE.

You always do this. You get defensive (over nothing) and start insinuating and attacking me (for no reason).
And it's obvious why. Because everything you say has defensive tones. Because I'm always right and you don't want to concede it.

Just take a good hard look at this response and previous ones. It's absurd you're accusing me of having a chip on my shoulder about Munster considering it's the first time I've ever mentioned them.

Grow up.

I was pretty shocked at the Results because days Prior to the game i could just see Munster fans on here talking about how much there gonna win by lol i guessed leinster showed them

Does England/Great Britain cheat in sport?

Is it fair in sport we can support and/or participate as Great Britain (i.e. athletics, tennis or rugby – Lions) and in other sports (football and rugby too!) be presented as England? Why? Is it we don't have enough sporting heros we have to steal the odd scotish or welsh person to suit us as British and when we have too many we declare we are English? (Not that the English football team is any good). ??? Personally I think it should be England and not Great Britain – besides what is Great Britain? Is it Great???

I agree! but you have forgotten about the Africans, West Indians, Canadians and Americans that also 'represent' us at various sports! How can they genuinely say They are doing it for Their Country and not the Money? I am proud that we have a Scottish National Football team, and realistic enough to know that there is only a very slim chance of us winning a major trophy in My lifetime, (But would be overjoyed if we did). Our players are now playing again with pride for the first time in years and our fans have a great National pride in the team because we know the are representing Us! Now I would love this to happen at the Olympics for example…..(After all we compete as separate nations in the Commonwealth games). It would give each of the Home nations something to cheer and would be better for all of us than the current 'British' setup…..with all the different nationalities that make up that team, wouldn't it be better to scrap the name and recall it the 'United Nations'?

Will the northern hemisphere clubs front and accept responsibilty for the decline of thier national sides.?

With all the debate about to many southern hemisphere players in the european comps I think it is the clubs that need to be targeted… not the players or the coaches that our AB’s have just rolled over.
The strength and base of rugby in europe seems (in my opinion) to be run by the privately owned clubs who for far to long have dictated who plays,where and when,but only when it is of financial advantage for them and not for the good of their national sides.
If nothing is done the northern hemispheres best bet at giving any southern hemisphere team a decent game is by continually rolling out thier british lions team…..but even then it’s proberbly going to have expat Kiwis, Aussies and Safa’s in it!
nonenzed….when SH teams play each other as in the tri-nations you will find even the most ardent supporter will proberbly admit that thier team will struggle to beat the opposition three times…..unfortunately (as is the case with the AB's) the reverse is true whenever we play NH teams espesically Wales!

The biggest problem the NH faces is that their clubs pick up whoever they can rather than trying to foster their own juniors. This has always been a problem with English county cricket, is a problem with English rugby league and is a definite problem with football.

The governing bodies need to come down on the clubs for them to increase local juniors.

The Welsh game last night was a joke. That clown with the whistle correctly pulled up the Aussies for a blatant forward pass, pity he missed all the elsh ones. Moore gets ten for loitering in the ruck while the Welsh 6 & 7 made their homes in the back of the Aussie ruck without one penalty. And that penalty at the end against Aus was an absolute joke.

The European game needs to start blooding younger, ergo, fitter refs who can keep up with the play.

EDIT: Peacelilley, the standard of rugby in the northern hemisphere has been on the downturn for a while. It's not so much that us southerners are getting better, we are. Just look at the RWC since it started. 6 RWC and only one win to the Northern Hemisphere. I think that says it all.

Why Should We RespectThe Haka?

The Lions were recently berated by the media for not paying respects to the Kiwi Haka because they stood in a circle with their backs to them. The Haka means nothing to other teams so why should they be made to stand and take that b*llsh*t eyeballing from the Kiwis. Be like the Australian Indigenous Rugby League team I say and give it back to them – Warrior to Warrior.

The haka represents a challenge to the opposing side but also largely is a sign of respect on our part shown to the other team. If people/teams turn their backs or berate it or shout obscenities, although it may be irrelevant to them – to us it shows that they have no respect for our team/coaches etc. No-one says that they “have” to show respect to it – but it’s about sportsmanship.

I mean during the Ireland vs ABs & Munster vs ABs before both matches there were moments of silence for an Irish rugby player who’d been tragically killed the week prior. A minutes silence is a mark of respect to him and his entire family – more often than not they’ve never asked for it – but it’s shown regardless.

If the ABs were to wander off and start performing their haka during that time – that would show a great disrespect on our part to not only that player, his family and Ireland as a whole – but wouldn’t show much as the ABs as people/sportspeople or NZ as a country. Because the All Blacks are a national team – they represent New Zealand wherever they go and we don’t want to be portrayed as a disrespectful nation on the international stage. I don’t think any country would want that.

It’s a silly argument that’s constantly brought up – I always say that if other nations wanted to do the same sort of thing, I think it should be done…….. but it should be performed by the players – not some song that’s sung by the entire statdium, because that just makes it irrelevant. Each to their own ideas though.